Religion - Part 1

As with all religions, there are handy aphorisms to be found in Buddhism, Hinduism etc, but it’s best not to take the beliefs too seriously. Folk wisdom is everywhere: “a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush”; “love thy neighbour”; “two many cooks spoil the broth” – you take your lessons where you can. But the superstitions of farmers from Japan are just as wrong as those of Middle Eastern nomads. There’s no such thing as “Chi” and reincarnation doesn’t happen, just as there’s no heaven and no Messiah on the way. Patronisingly recognising the mysterious insights of “the East” whilst rejecting Western religion as socially constructed is, well, a bit rubbish.

Comments

[Danny]

You've ignored the question of faith. It's not about whether things are real or not but whether people believe they are that gives them strength, solace, support etc.

[Alistair]

It's entitled "Part 1"... So far all I've said is that they're all equally wrong.

[Danny]

But they're not wrong, because of faith.

You haven't addressed faith and what it does for people in terms of solace, support, personal development, strength etc. In that religion is not wrong.

It's a silly thing to omit when making any sort of judgement on comparitive religion.

It also has more to do with the belief systems that marry well with people's lives that explains why Westerners are adopting Eastern religions.

For many Catholic damnation and hellfire isn't as helpful as the thought of being nice in order to come back as a better person in the next life.

It's the carrot and the stick innit?

[Alistair]

Well, this one was about dismissing your own tradition but patronising a different one due to its "otherness". I've nodded to the usefulness of religious belief - life lessons etc - but there'll be more to come on this...

[Danny]

But that's more to do with marrying your life to a belief system that makes sense.

For example if I am gay Catholicism isn't going to float my boat is it?

Also in a world where people are travelling more and experiencing other religions and cultures it's hardly surprising that this happens, and its hardly a criticism on people's fickleness or whatever but more that there is more choice open to them.

[Stefan]

I've banged this drum before, but surely if people have faith it is precisely fickleness that stops a gayer being a Catholic. If they have faith, they will believe what they believe and hate themselves. You can't just magic true faith from how it fits in with your life.

[Alistair]

Surely picking a faith which conveniently fits in with what you think already kinda destroys the point of living your life *according* to a set of beliefs? Down with pic and mix religion.

[Danny]

Faith and belief are intertwined and if you doubt your faith because you can't believe that a God will love you and yet the church chastises you for what you are then your faith can be challenged and break down.

It's that schism between increased knowledge and the role of the church that means we are getting less blind faith, because we are not blind anymore.

The Catholic church does not educate us or hold us as strongly as it did historically. We know that condoms are good things, that abortion is a viable option for women and that homosexuality is not wrong or punishable and that there are also faiths that practise the same ethics (be good, don't lie etc) that won't admonish you for whatever reason.

[trikke d]

Be a doubting Thomas - by all means have faith that the chair you're sitting in will keep your arse off the floor and have faith that a locked door will keep others from opening it - but unless someone approaches you with proof that he/she is the son/daughter of god/man and allows you to poke your fingers inside their wounds, then do not believe that the Messiah has returned to save your soul. Religion is codswallop and faith is codswallop. It's all rubbish. It's a support system for those who are unable to grasp the fundamentals of physical science - that we're just here for a bit and that's it. There's a need to fill and a family waiting to take you into its arms and give you comfort - and that is religion. I respect other peoples beliefs - personally I hail from a Roman Catholic background - I was an altar server for over 10 years, I had the insane idea that god wanted me to be a priest once, my family is still true to the church, my brother became a buddhist and spent a few years in retreat in a monastery, I myself explored gnosticism, paganism and the hermetic western tradition. And you know, I did attain enlightenment - I discovered how pointless it all is. And even now as I suffer from the same instilled catholic guilt and as I instinctively react with the same superstitious responses (I still automatically say my prayers every now and again) I find myself erring on the side of caution, unwilling to believe that there isn't a greater force at work in the universe. I look at the landscape and the artist in me comes over all romantic and I wonder and marvel at the spiritual at work in nature. And then I come home, have a whiskey and remind myself that what is really marvelous is what one human being will do for another in the short time we have on this planet - that what has come about because of a freak accident of chemistry is amazing in itself. There is no need for faith or religion anymore - it's clinging to the past - and it's bunk!

[trikke d]

Sorry - I know it's not particularly coherent and that I may have missed the point/points but I just needed to get that off my chest. I thank you.

[Dan]

I'm glad this is only part 1. I'm looking forward to the other parts.

You've started well, although inevitably you're going to be increasingly wrong. But the whole "wow, eastern religion is so much more deep than western society" attitude deserves a big ol' slap.

[laura]

"Eastern religion is so much more deep than western society" - aw c'moooooon, has anyone *ever* said this apart from Kula Shaker?

I've come to despise giving oxygen to debates about the greatest irrelevance of modern times (i.e. religion). So I probably shouldn't have posted this.

[Dan]

Yes. Yes they have.

[SuperPope]

A lot of people claim to follow Buddhism because it's trendy or simply because it's not the belief system of their parents. Your point is valid. However, obvious mythologies and poor contradictory dogmas regarding multiple petty gods are easily dismissed. Just because one system can be disproven doesn't mean that there is no God, no Messiah, no hopelessly fallen humanity in desperate need of salvation.

In response to some other comments on this thread: The idea of faith being its own reward is completely bankrupt. Any philosophy that requires you to not know about it in order to follow it is self defeating. The trick to that philosophy is that it won't work unless you don't adhere to that philosophy. If you don't truly believe the thing you place your faith in then that belief cannot help you "cope" (if indeed that were the point of faith).

As for the various comments about religion being the "greatest irrelevance of modern times", that's Star Trek theology. The idea that since so much has been explained, everything eventually will be explainable. Like the fact that everything couldn't have arisen from an eternity of nothing. Like the fact that our irreducable systems of hearing, vision, blood clotting, etc. could not have arisen through natural selection, since if any small aspect of these system didn't spontaneously exist without all of the other components the creature would be unfit and the improvement would die out immediately.

As for "increased knowledge" teaching us that it's perfectly natural to stick your penis in another man's rectum, gimme a break. It doesn't take a Bible thumper to see the absurdity of that statement.

People today would rather believe anything than the truth of God. Movies and television pretend saying that aliens seeded life on earth is some sort of answer to the question of origin. Who created the aliens, then? We simply shift the question until we don't have to think about it any longer.

If there is such a thing as right and wrong, then God must exist. If there isn't, every one of us is living a lie whenever we do anything we do not wish to do at that given moment. And that philosophy only sounds like a good idea until you're on the receiving end of someone's selfish desire.

[laura]

"If there is such a thing as right and wrong, then God must exist".

Rubbish - I always see the 'right-wrong' thing as the bit that lets the whole doctrine down. The very fact that God doesn't see shades of grey necessarily means that he can't exist: "So you're a murderer? You're going to hell. So you're gay? So are you". We're better than God because, if we're to believe that God believes what the Evangelical Christian element believes, we have a more developed sense of degrees of wrongdoing (and forgiveness) than he does.

[SuperPope]

This post is nearly a month late on a site that hasn't been updated in that length of time, either, so you may never even see this, but oh well.

Laura, you're stating your opinion about what is right or wrong as proof that God need not exist. All you're really stating is that you disagree with God. The point is that if there is such a thing as objective moral truth, then it has to come from something outside of ourselves, our society, or our culture.

If you don't believe in objective moral truth then you could not complain if a stranger shot your mother in the face because he felt it was his "moral right". After all, he's free to his own view of morality, isn't he? Who are you to force your morals on him?

[Tim]

"The point is that if there is such a thing as objective moral truth, then it has to come from something outside of ourselves, our society, or our culture."

I'll see your dubious neo-Platonism and raise you Aristotle, Aquinas, Kant, Hegel and Bentham. Also the idea that relativism doesn't implies quietism is a classic first-year philosophy student mistake. Think about it for a minute, and I'm sure you'll see what's wrong with the idea.

"Who created the aliens, then? We simply shift the question until we don't have to think about it any longer."

I quite agree. I have a feeling James Mill would blow your mind.